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So remember, people, give thanks today to our heroes everywhere. In this case the water would have been the secondary refrigerant. Pales of red and white, alike meaning they are given. The colors of freedom; red, white, and blue. Why do we watch our grand old flag die? Well, if you could build a CA, you could build a BC as well, actually.

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Who has the loyalty of his men not from fear, but from their knowledge that he will lead them to victory.

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Do you guys think such a character would have a place in the story? There is a brick General that meets this descriptio. He has not been mentioned much since he was kicked out of India other than kicking the ass off another brick Army trying to get back to his people and bringing his army with him safely.

I suspect Taylor has great plans for him in the next few books. I also hate the spell checks that mind gives me after I hit send sometimes. Here I will only say that, while some nutcases remain rampant, years of war do tend to eventually breed degrees of competence. Sometime to a disconcerting level. If nothing else, idiocy is one of those self-correcting behaviors.

People who are too stupid to live. This can hurt them, but it also makes them unpredictable. I always wondered why Grik general Halik did not actually surrender and offer the services of his army to Ready. It just shows that my understanding is incomplete as I assumed that survivors of battle in his culture would do so if offered if they had not suffered Grik Route.

Cannot wait for the next book and I see The book has been named answering the question i asked last week. Sort of. Remember, he was just as surprised by the surrender of troops in the Indus River Valley as anyone. Totally new notions for both of them, but both are becoming more pragmatic. Still consistent with their earlier culture, but not beaten into them that they will be slain if they flee from battle, only if they shirk their duties.

Castes within castes have been seen before, but early contact with Grik Indiamen, in which even the sailors were warriors, set the Allied mindset. What about other more technical Grik, taught even to operate cannon or other weapons, but not taught or expected to engage in direct physical combat?

How might they react with it forced upon them? The Grik are a monolithic culture on the surface, but the seeds of its own subversion are quickly sending shoots into the cracked foundation. What are the chances of that? He has been a very confused lizard, working a lot of stuff out on his own, probably the first time a Grik general has ever done so.

Possibly not the LAST however, for good or ill. The idea come from the Japanese Geerki had worked with as a procurer of supplies. Some of the Grik Generals may have had training from other Japanese and learned of the concept of surrender before the Japanese mentors retreated to Zanzibar.

My guess is a mix. Thinking of the end game Esshk might realize to fight modern armies means the Grik can no longer afford unthinking uhl and thus the Grik culture evolves. The Chooser and Esshk have already discussed the Celestialmother becoming more of a figurehead who reigns rather than the older form where she rules, so Grik culture is already a changing.

Still surprising to me that they told you to release the same week i asked Still Halik has to have been aware that there had been those who had surrendered and survived previously. Yeah, it was, Donald. Pretty ironic! They were the first example of large scale aberrant Grik behavior if you think about it.

There were some exceptions. Speaking of things that are amazingly philosophical, I saw two examples of evolution in action last weekend. First was a pair of rattlesnakes as big around as my forearms which are fairly large. Neither one rattled. Of course, as noted before, those that do are gulped down by feral hogs.

Second was what has become a new species of wolf. Over time, they have reproduced and established themselves as predators colored like a dark coyote and about the size of a German Shepherd. Otherwise, they act like coyotes, running and hunting in packs, highly social and vocal, but their call is louder and deeper than coyotes.

Pretty amazing. Of course, they are very hard on the deer population. When I was referring to previous surrenders I was referring to those who surrendered to join the hunt like the Japanese did and the feferance that others had been allowed to do so. Remember also, though, that the Japanese smashed 3 attempts to swarm them under—in a leaking, creeping ship. Weird example: My wife and daughter rescued a very stupid cat.

His name, in fact because I used it often enough that he started answering to it is. Well, oddly, Stupid has sort of become MY cat in a bizarre Petey reverse analog sort of way. Petey definitely predates him. ANYWAY, my daughter has an Aussie Shepherd that is arguably far stupider than the cat with the exception that her initial obsession was to murder him.

He was probably too stupid to know he should be afraid. She follows him around, staring at him from a distance of about 3 inches, even when he is asleep. When he suddenly attacks her in play she acts like she has been chastised by her God. Yes, Alexey, it was. Although I am not utterly opposed to the notion of certain kinds of genetic memory. Well, according to some modern recearchs, some stresses actually could be imprinted in DNA.

The mechanics is not completely clear, but seems to be RNA-based. Hm… I wonder: Generally the same person, same traits — but with allegiance to something really bad. Maybe even with goatee. One might suppose other examples may not have survived to be installed in their zoo. I think the only problem potentially with that type of character could be that a character like that might be hard to hate.

I hate kurokawa and the grik. Maybe from the same universe as the League? Maybe ends up as the commander of the New US? Okay so I have a couple of questions to pose to the rest of the forum. First I was wondering what you guys thought about the Japanese reactions to the alliance members being among them. Will any of the Japanese be curious as to how the unions life is?

Will that breed changes in views or get any of them to lose heart? Will the alliance members mention how their Japanese prisoners have been freed to Japan and are now allies? On a totally different note I have been wondering this since some guys speculated about Herring, but do you guys think any of the fellas are actually gay in the book? It would be interesting to see how any would be treated in this world or in the other cultures like the Empire.

I think culture will be the telling thing in both cases. Among the Japanese being a prisoner is a grave loss of face, I expect the guards will be brutal, and not interested in a foreign culture. As to the gay question remember at the time homosexuality was classed as a sexual perversion, its practice severely punished, and its practice a sin in the majority Christian Religion.

Overt racism was practiced then too, and Taylor has for the most part made the Asiatic Sailors more tolerant than the probably were actually. One reason might be the Lemurians were a different species not just another human race. Other thoughts guys? HM do you think then that Matt and the Empire would still do floggings or hangings for buggery if any of their men were found to be homosexuals?

I highly doubt Reddy would flog or hang anybody. Not unless Bernard Cornwall takes over writing the next book. The Empire maybe , but they do seem to be slightly more enlightened than their OTL contemporaries less racist, pro-conservation, etc. You know when it comes to floggings in the empire I could actually see the company ships being either more or less caring about it than the navy.

Where one might be quite understanding to some of his crew members urges as long as they work hard and no troubles arise some others might go very far. After all they are far from anyone and the leadership is pretty much its own court at that point, law of the sea as it were. I wonder if the Company ships in the Empire would have had flogging, and not necessarily for buggery.

On the other hands, they were around for more than a century — so, they clearly formed their own traditions…. I really wish I could have known more about the company, I hope we run into some ex members in the future. After all not all of them would have been killed and im sure like Billingsley I bet even the ones who would have been subversive would throw in just for a chance to kill the Doms.

It would be cool to hear from one of those fellas. Quite agree! They were against the ruling monarchy, but it was power struggle, internal. If the situation was still just internal — Company against the Crown — it would clearly led to a civil war within the Empire. Remember the Governor of Califorina escaped to the Doms during a fake hunting trip and might pop up again if Taylor so wishes.

As bad alliance loss have been all of the above have been pounded. I see a cold war developing with the League. Most likely a quiet word from the chiefs that the Dame famine is over and that form of release is no longer tollerated is all it will take. As to the Republic less so, and the New US and the Empire probably less tolerant and more likely to bring out the Cat of nine-tails.

As to Matt, as noted I think the crew will take care of the problem, but Matt is likely to order a know homosexual out of the American Navy Clan. I should mention men back then tended to settle things like disrespect and name calling for themselves, and society now is very different. Back then gay meant light hearted and happy. I will repeat the pejoratives, as it is inpolite to cause readers harm you are warned.

Fag, fagot, queer, cornholer, bugger more an UK term than American are some of the common pejoratives used for gay people. Some times slang could get one in trouble, at the time the common British term for a cigrette was a fag, and the term for an informal visit could get a British person in trouble IE.

They have manpower shortage, after all. Yeah but its fun to speculate about the world it takes place in, and I dont really get how homosexual characters are any worse than people being eviscerated. Note Japanese culture is more tollerent of homosexuality that American culture of this time, and they are still in a dame famine.

So the subject has been broached in the series, and may be revisited. Oh something else is tokenism adding a character so you have a fill in the blank here character only to show you have such a character and are not slighting the fill in the blank here community. This type of of politically correct writing gets tedious, and is historically inaccurate. Yes Virginia the USN of the early s was almost pure vanilla, and heterosexual, or hid their homosexuality that was how it was in those times.

Note even an absolute dictator like Kurosawa controlled his impulses. Now Don Hernan is a heterosexual pedophile and sadist who Taylor admits makes him feel creepy writing about. I was afraid this thread may sound like that. Agreed on tokenism topic. The sample of main characters in any given novel is relatively small, after all.

Simply speaking, there are much more of them, so statistically talking, there are more probabilities for them. For example talking about Destroyermen if some newly-transferred high-ranking USN officer would start to push Reddy to discharge some of his men, whos homosexuality became accidently known. This would probably be the most Out Of Character thing possible!

Pffft, so overused. Silva is already established as having a strong taste for the ladies and as many as he can find reminds me of my dad even down to the blonde hair. But Juan gas never really seemed affected by the dame famine and never really seemed as overjoyed when it ended.

He has always been very focused on his work and never showed weakness in any situation. I see a lot of gay servicemen be the same way and work tirelessly and be even more tough like they need to prove something to those around them. I mean Juan even lost his leg and jumped right back into his steward work without missing a beat.

Actually, this make quite a lot of sence, about Juan. Also if he turned to be gay for him it would mean a lot less problem than from others. He is outside the usual ranks, he is respected by the crew, and he proven himself a lot. If he ever had any reason for it to even come up it would probably be linked to the time he spent in the empire away from the crew recovering from the loss of his leg.

That would most likely be the only time he would have met another gay fellow since all of this started. Plus being away from the crew would make it easier for him since he could fear how people would treat him if that did come out. It would be pretty shitty to have your family look at you differently or focus on that one aspect rather than how things were before that and that would be one of the greater reasons for members to hide such things even with such a close crew.

Not to mention he would be horrified if Reddy treated him differently since he really just seems to look up to him. I actually enjoy a lot of the subplots even more than the battles themselves. Taylor is really good at them and I find myself rereading the meetings and early visits to the empire a ton.

Probably not everything right in the Empire right now. After all, the Imperial society is pretty much… outdated. They were thrown from slave-based capitalistic era into the industrial post-nationalistic era of total warfare. Basically, they lived through close analogue of the French Revolution.

And, of course, the fact that high-ranking military officer was involved into the regicide plot…. I wonder: In the Empire… perhaps, but I doubt Matt would hang or flog anyone for it. I only see him having men killed as punishment for truly awful crimes- rape, murder, treason, etc. That being said, I think the subject alone would make him uncomfortable at least, and he might be disappointed with the crewmen in question.

Moreover, they came thorugh a bottleneck with only a limited numbers of females avaliable in early period. And, well, humans are social creatures If there are much more males than females avaliable, males started to form some bonds with each other. We have no X-century Roman Empire to ask! But generally the multicultural societies are considered more tolerant. So, the Republic probably have more or less liberal attitude toward this.

It is possible, that the central goverment have no point about homosexuality at all, and different factions of the Republic have their own attitude. The general population, hovewer, might have another point of view. After all, quite a lot of pre-columbian cultures accepted homosexual relations incas, for example.

We knew a bit about their sexuality, but we knew nothing about the possibility of homosexual relations. Of course we knew nothing about their cultural attidute toward homosexuality, but I could hardly imagine that Lemurians would be extremely hostile in that case. They are, after all, pretty social and not aggressive by their biology.

Is that clear? I think for the Empire it might be like how it was in Great Britain back in the day where homosexuals were closeted to outsiders but they knew eachother pretty well. The community would have dinner parties and the like where they would be open and meet eachother. During this war many would be spread across the conflict and you would probably have meetings like this.

How are you old boy? David is a worried wreck but he is too busy with the New Wales trading company to hunt down news. But I have missed seeing any of the lads, and I regret being gone for your send off. I got a bottle of Dom wine. Sounds fantastic! And you can tell me if the others while I spin tales of fighting alongside these wild lemurian chaps.

And societies tend to evolve in cultural attitude rather quickly. First of all, the bottleneck effect. With the exception of the Republic, both the Empire, the Dominion and the NUS were settled by very small number of initial settlers. For the Empire this is especially important — because they initially have pretty multicultural population.

Second, is the influence of the situation. Basically the mere fact that they are in another world, surrouned by different sentient species, and they quickly learned that other and other parallel worlds existed at least the Republic was able to establish this rather quickly must seriously affect the ways of thinking and established doctrines.

No offense to any religion, but in such specific situation, they would also be forced to adapt their teaching — or the religion would became increasingly more formal. In places where raising population was a major concern they needed everyone adding to it. So there is the possibility that in these places the strictness could be real because once the famine was solved they needed to raise populations.

But I would suspect a still strong homosexual community mainly for the fact that they were sailors who came across and were stuck in that situation with no women for so long. I know a absolute ton of different levels of bisexuals whether I was in my small home of a logging town in the Cascades or here in the marine corps now that they can talk about it without fearing being discharged.

Its just an interesting thing that you dont really think about. There are a lot of researchs about this matter, but they are quite far away from comprehensive. As far as I knew, currently there is no more or less comprehensive model of bisexuality, and most statistical research tended to ignore that at all.

Mhm and that I would think would be a lot more common if the characters were to fall into some level of that. Like I think the Japanese who are looking at eachother differently might fall into that gray area. The Japanese World War II society was not exactly very tolerant, but clearly not very in-tolerant also. So, they would probably… well. How do you think Kurokawa will act towards the prisoners?

The main problem with Kurokawa — you never knew how exactly he would act. He is quite insane, after all; his logic is very hard to follow in most cases. Currently, Kurokawa is clearly in very good mood. He may even try to persuade Adar that he have no animosity toward Lemurians, he was forced to play with the Griks, and now, when he is in control, he would only be glad to negotiate a peace treaty — of course, if Lemurians would cancel their support to those nasty american warmongers.

Doubt that would work, but Kurokawa may THINK that it would work… he seems to consider himself a brilliant politician. The average Japanese officers genrally ignored the actions of their soliders toward locals or even encouraged them , but Kurokawa most definitedly not the average Japanese officer… And he is clearly Card-Carrying Villain enough, so he did not need to kick every puppy nearby to look evil enough.

Hopefully Muriname takes over the prisoners. Yeah Muriname actually game me the most hope that everything wont become insanely miserable for everyone involved in this League plot. I just realized that the reason that Silva gets away with pulling so much crap. Taylor admitted a few weeks ago that He is Silva in his past life. He is telling us the kind of crap HE used to pull!

I know we all have certain things in mind when we read the books in respect of the look of the characters and people we see as those characters. Am I close to the mark with it? Controversial post now. But the big question is who to play the characters? Lol, glad you approve skipper. And as for the Mi Anaaka….. But Tom Hanks for Keje is a good one.

Fran Dresher for Pam? Considering the Grik and Lemurians, it would be much easier and likely cheaper to make an animated film or tv series out of it. I agree with many of your actor pics though for either live action or just as voices. We do need a good voice actor for Kurokawa though…. Hm… What do you think about the japanese anime series?

There are still a few of great animators who work without much fanservise. The trick would be to find a studio that could create it in an artstyle that is relatively realistic. There was a pretty good time travel series a while back called Zipang that had a pretty good art style, but the series was never really finished. I think Warcraft style CG would look very….

If it is animated, I think 2d or mixed animation would look better. Maybe the cat characters be more realistic in their voices if they were spoken with helium. It would be more in squeaky voices and to me more realistic. We are living in a digital age! Not in the age when you need a creaking door in studio to create sound of creaking door! Hmm conspiracy theory on the Destroyermen Wiki.

A lot of information, provided by him, was actually only partially true. As a result of such misinformation, the Alliance fleet was drawn into the open battle with Dominion Atlantic Fleet, and suffered terrible losses — actually for nothing. The state of war is a cold war between the two but as we all know as far as the soldiers in the field are concerned it is always a hot war so they do things and say things as if it were a hot war.

This is what my feeling towards what Samuel Anson said. As far as the navy not having heard of him that could not be considered unusual. Do not tell anyone you are spying or sabotaging and if the wrong person is caught then he can not squeal. Very perceptive. Sorry I was out of contact, but there was NO signal where I was!

I enjoyed what you did with the clan names of the Shee-Ree tribe. Hopefully there is no Grik commander named Meken-Zee. Thanks for the tip. I wonder if the Texans in the Navy Clan will pick up on this? But with some help from in-build face designer from Fallout: New Vegas and SketchUp I was able to make this:.

Very, very nice. Actually about perfect for my mental image of Muriname—sans spectacles! Small, but pretty interesting technological detail — in , France have prototype glide bombs in comission. They were standard kg bombs, fitted with wings and gyroscopic autopilot kit.

They came a few days too late to be used operationally, and it seems that french military destroyed all prototyped and data to prevent Germans from obtaining it, but still this was pretty interesting work! Adar is relatively skilled diplomat: I doubt that Adar would be able to manipulate Kurokawa, but to direct him to start to doubt the League and possibli provoke Kurokawa-League conflict — perfectly.

One wonders: He holds it all by the force of his personality and fear he inspires. Welcome aboard, Arland! You have a good point, but when have I ever thrown in such a convenient plot device the Thank you. It will be rather wastefull to have such a good villain killed so fast.

I really doubt that Kurokawa would be so opinionated to allow himself to talk with Sandra without her being searched first. Of course, not counting the possibility of inside work…. But what if Kurokawa visits her in her cell secure in the false knowledge she is unarmed? She is a pretty valuable POW, after all.

Especially for the Kurokawa. If so, this is a first time that real-world significant figure actively used in novels…. Some people know that Douglas MacArthur was probably insane.

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He thought of heroes from long ago. They are, after all, pretty social and not aggressive by their biology. Freedom to laugh freedom to cry, Freedom to ask and answer why, Freedom to believe in whatever you do, Freedom to dress, and just to be you.

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I watched over them. Though the bell may be cracked, it still rings loud and clear in our hearts. One story caught my attention as they told about two soldiers and how through their heroic efforts had turned a part of the war around through one valiant trip behind enemy lines.

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